World Science Scholars

2.6 Discussion

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    • Professor Van Raamsdonk posed several profound questions that warrant future investigation, one of which is whether we even need gravity since we can basically ignore gravity at atomic scales. What is your hypothesis for the answer to this question?

    • Gravity might be an emergent property of a large conglomeration of microscopic constituents or fields.

    • I think we’re ignoring the difference in the reference frame between our frame and the black hole’s frame, for example. Like Carlo Rovelli said in a different master class, we are looking at black holes from afar. This is the reason why we think they live for 10^100 years or so (the most massive ones). But if we were to actually get close and get in their own frame of reference we could see them collapse and maybe bounce back into a white hole of sorts.

      In fact, it bothers me that white holes are not taken more seriously. The Big Bang itself could be one. If you look at the properties of a black hole, you can see it is maximum entropy and it has a singularity in the future. If we look at the Big Bang, we can see it’s minimum entropy (barring the quantum fluctuations that disturb it) and it has a singularity in the past. That’s exactly the reverse of a black hole. We should seriously consider the universe as being a white hole.

      As far as gravity goes, the most promising clues in quantum gravity are that gravity emerges from quantum entanglement. In this case, space is not fundamental. Time isn’t fundamental, either, if the universe is closed and has zero total energy, since its wave function does not evolve in time, it’s static.

      • For me, the concept of the Big Bang being a white hole is reminiscent of Roger Penrose’ concept of aeons of universe evolution. I’m not a physicist. However, I wonder whether the universe could contain many white holes just as it contains many black holes. Could this relate to dark matter or dark energy?

    • If the warping of spacetime that gives rise to gravity is a function of density – mass/volume, then as a star collapses towards a singularity its density must accelerate towards infinity. A singularity with infinte density is surely the domain of quantum mechanics – and the gravitational effect of such a region would become a major player. Just as the weak interaction of two distant magnets becomes a dominant factor when they occupy the same neighbourhood.

    • I don’t have a good answer, but I am encouraged that much important progress at CERN and the launch of the JWST are occurring somewhat simultaneously. I am hopeful that observation of the very small and of the very large will help us “see” the hidden code we are looking for. Is there a white hole into another universe on the opposite “side” of a black hole?

      I’m a biologist – not a physicist! 🙃

    • I think we should be clear about our concepts and the “reality” they refer. We may think that we have developed a conceptual tool called “spacetime”, yet we are able to calculate motion through its warping, moreover we detected gravitational waves through it. Whether on subatomic scales or astronomical scales, spacetime could be more than just a tool. It comprises of matter, emptiness or what not. And subatomic levels are in it too. Spacetime is the whole universe. So when we define gravity, as a warping effect of spacetime due to mass, considering that subatomic particles have miniscule mass, their warping effect may be ignorable, but this doesn’t bar any investigation with their relationship to spacetime. How could it be possible that we observe Hawking radiation around black holes? How could particles be dense and supermassive? These are questions which through new findings may illuminate the relationship of particles with spacetime and enrich our understanding of spacetime and universe.
      In that regard, I would like to add that Einstein’s theory of general relativity and quantum mechanics seem to be incompatible due to scales. When it comes to gravity it is the mass of the object, regardless of its size, which is important. Black holes confirm the theory of GR and as they comprise of super dense collapsed particles, which are the subject of quantum mechanics, they seem to be the fertile ground which could provide new dimensions to our understanding of spacetime and spacetime. .

    • 😀

    • We need gravity to understand what happens inside black holes and what happened at big bang singularity. Both these questions are of central importance, not just to physics but to our understanding of our place in the universe and the question of ultimate reality. If we can understand exactly what happens inside black holes, we might be able to understand how the big bang came to be, which would be one of the greatest leaps forward in human knowledge.

    • The gravity being negligible is even more relative in understanding quantum movement compared to ours, so to understand negligible gravity vs greater gravity in how things behave is still necessary to understand what’s different when it’s negligible.

    • It still seems that quantum mechanics is the fundamental bed rock of reality even with its current shortcomings. It would be consistent that spa time and associated gravity are emergent from quantum mechanical behavior and black holes are the best laboratory to continue to explore how that emergence happens.

    • excellent

    • LIGO and it`s research reveals gravity science.

      It exists.

      We can ask if we need it or can ignore it.

      But gravity exists beyond conventions of the day.

    • If we ignore any aspect of the picture the image will be wrong> Mercury didn’t fit until we put more into our understanding, Until we gather all the pixels we won’t have a clear image.

    • This is the most fun part of our physics that laws work differently as microscopic model and macroscopic level. If we are considering the atomic level the gravitational force do exist but the forms changes and in the bigger object like the earth and the sun it is different , also we can’t deny the fact that gravitational force do exist.

    • Gravity shouldn’t be ignored, because if so, a crucial aspect of the system could disappear. Even in kinematics or Newtonian physics, when studying systems, gravity is the first thing we acknowledge: “Consider the force of gravity to be null” or “Use g=10m/s”. Take a ball falling from a building as an example, we can calculate its distance, its velocity, acceleration, as well as any of that information at any given time. We are able to perfectly map out the situation, not only understanding the causes, but also predicting the future. However, if we ignored gravity, we would miss the crucial element of this particular system, the falling. What if, even at atomic levels, gravity is crucial?

    • Ladies and Gentlemen,

      Viewed at the subatomic level, we see radiation and matter.

      The Quantum gravity applies subatomic insights.

      Dr. Frederick Alzofon and his son David present us evidence that we need a Quantum gravity that leaves Einstein Relativity alone.

      Dr. Alzofon spent his life researching the Quantum Gravity, but politics never allowed it to see the light of day. He may have died a broken man, but he found it.

      His son now continues the exposure. While we see this develops from CERN insights, earlier generations never had particle science.

      The emergence of quantum gravity to explain stellar observations is required in a greater reality of world Astronomy efforts that now act more group- like than individual.

      With the ending of NPT by the Greater Reality, we see Quantum Gravity allows a technology edge worth pursuing. We have both theory and an experiment already performed and can replicate these on good theory.

      🙂🍵☕🍵🍵

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    • great

    • Because gravity will help understand questions about the Big Bang and compact objects like black holes.

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